Days Gone
John Garvin , the writer and creative director behindDays Goneon PlayStation 4 tells us all about the games he ’s worked on , fromSyphon FiltertoUncharted : Golden Abyss . The studio which would eventually be known as SIE Bend Studio first made waves with theSyphon Filtertrilogy back in the day of the originalPlayStation . Back then , they were bonk as Eidetic , though they became known as Bend in sentence for the 2001 spillage ofSyphon Filter 3 .
As a first - party studio owned by Sony , Bend went on to develop moreSyphon Filtertitles for PSP , aResistancespin - off for PSP , andUncharted : Golden Abyssfor the PlayStation Vita . Now , Bend Studio is gearing up for the launch ofDays Gone , their first original IP sinceSyphon Filterall the way back in 1998 . Through it all , writer John Garvin has been the lead writer behind all of Bend ’s deed of conveyance , which has lent the studio apartment a unique identity which has persisted throughout their wide-ranging title .
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WithDays Gonejust days off , we spoke with Garvin about the ambitious title , and applying Bend ’s impulse - drive tale approach shot to the open world genre . He also dish up on the legion changes that have been made to the game since its 2016 E3 debut , and reminisces on Bend ’s older titles even offering a slight , bait tease that moreSyphon Filtercould be on the way , eventually .
Something that ’s surprised me in the launch hertz for Days Gone , in interview that I ’ve read and just universal internet hype , is how many people still fondly rememberSyphon Filter , and I for sure count myself in that crowd . The ending of Logan ’s Shadow is still blacken into my brain , more than ten year later …
John Garvin : You know what ’s weird ? We have a mountain ofSyphon Filterfans in Europe . I just finished a crush enlistment that pass away all across Europe , and got so manySyphon Filterquestions , it ’s not even laughable !
A lot of studio are famous , or ill-famed , for having so much employee turnover , to the item where an immediate sequel can be made by practically a entirely unlike team . I do n’t know if that ’s the suit with Sony Bend , but you have been there since the starting time . Since before the kickoff , when the studio apartment was have sex as Eidetic .
John Garvin : Yeah . You ’re right about turnover rate , in oecumenical . But for us … The people who createdSyphon Filter1 , we still have Chris Reese , who ’s the studio apartment director . He was the lead applied scientist onSyphonback in the Eidetic daytime . I ’ve always been there . And Jeff Ross , who ’s the Game Director onDays Gone , he was a grade designer onSyphon1 . And a lot of our bring on faculty , like Connie Booth ( currently Vice President of Product Development ) , she was our producer way back then . There ’s not a destiny of employee turnover at Bend Studio . We ’re growing , but a good deal of us have been work together for over twenty years .
Do you think how many multitude were at Eidetic back when you were doing the firstSyphon Filter ?
John Garvin : I do n’t know the exact turn , but I retrieve expect at a picture not too long ago , and I think it was twelve or thirteen guy rope , and one gallon . Susan , our function manager , was also there . She ’s been with the studio longer than me . She was there when I started , and she ’s still there .
So maybe a dozen or so people . And how many citizenry at Sony Bend are working onDays Gone ?
John Garvin : I reckon the last numeral I heard was we were pushing , count some QA folks we hired internally , I think we ’re at about 145 now .
That ’s so many , but it ’s also kinda mid - size , compare to some . Bend has always hit me as such a hard - working studio apartment that surprises with these imposingly big games , usually made for hand-held system . YourResistanceandUnchartedgames stand toe - to - toe with the best of their cabinet siblings .
John Garvin : It ’s funny , the studio apartment stayed small for a really farsighted time . By the time we finishedSyphon Filter 3 , we were perhaps 30 people . Maybe less than that . I do n’t think we really initiate ramping up until we startedGolden Abyss(the handheldUnchartedtitle ) . That ’s when we move to about 50 citizenry , when we start work on that launch title of respect for the PlayStation Vita . We ’ve fundamentally only done games that fit the shell of our studio apartment . We were doing handhelds for quite a while ; even though they were state - of - the - nontextual matter handhelds with high production values , the scope of them was small enough for our pretty small team . The point of your enquiry , I absolutely agree with . We ’ve always feel we are a scrappy studio apartment , just trying to hit above our system of weights class . That ’s kind of the way we ’ve always felt . For a plot likeDays go , 140 multitude is pretty little . It ’s such a big secret plan .
There must have been a batch of air pressure , tackle a fully grown budget cabinet statute title after being out for 15 years ( not including the PS2 ports of the PSPSyphon Filtertitles )
John Garvin : But you have to keep in mind that we ’re Sony " first party . " We have a lot of support groups . All of our medicine and audio recording , all of our cinematics , we went down to L.A. and got to shoot them all on Sony stages with Sony support crews , and Sony Visual Arts and Services really aid out . plausibly another 50 masses , all told . And that ’s not counting PR and marketing .
How has the pressing convert since the daylight ofSyphon Filterand even as recently asUncharted ? There ’s an mind floating around that there was a lot more creative exemption in the pre - HD era , since budgets were lower and team were smaller , so you could do what you wanted as long as you attain your deadlines . Was that really the subject , or is development in reality not that dissimilar now ?
John Garvin : You know , this is just my opinion , because I do n’t screw about other studios , but in terms of Bend studios , we ’ve always done it the same way . Sony is our publisher , and our end is to support the platform . Since Sony buy us , after , I opine , Syphon Filter 2 , our goal has always been to make game that sell ironware , whether it ’s been the PS1 , PS2 , PSP , or Vita . And now , obviously , the PS4 . We really desire to create game that , I intend , want to have a certain kind of appeal , and they have to be commercial . We ask to invoke to enough gamers who say , " I want to buy this platform because I require to play that game . " I think that ’s always the finish , whether we were doing something for the Vita or the PS4 . I do n’t call up that ’s ever changed . We could never do " whatever we wanted . " It always had to go through the greenish - light source process and chip and balances with selling and execs to make certain it ’s a viable product .
This might seem like a silly question , and I call up a spate of mass want to ask it , but only I am humble enough to do so . There ’s this omnipresence of windy creators : you ’ve got your Miyamotos , your Kojimas , etc . You ’re credited as Writer and Creative Director onDays Gone , while Jeff Ross is credited as Game Director . Could you dilate on the interplay between your roles ? What are your responsibilities and what are his ? I suppose it ’s unlike from movies , where you write a script , you turn it in , and then you leave .
John Garvin : I would call it a very , very , very close coaction , and not just with Jeff , our Game Director . Also with our Art Director , and our Technical Director . And I ’m blank out so many . Our Animation Director … All those central - holders and vision - steward have to cooperate close . About your earlier question , we were given carte blanche , at first . Golden Abyssdid really well for Sony . It was a not bad launch claim . We proved ourselves , that we could take on an ambitious labor . So they said , " what do you require to do ? " We were in a brainstorming phase , and I think I ’m the one who do up with the mind of , " I desire to do something limit in the high desert or the peaceable nor'-west . " I had n’t seen a plot limit here before . We ’re huge fans ofSons of Anarchy , and I really liked the approximation of explore part in this culture , not because of the violence and criminalism , but because of the human relationship between Jax and his close supporter , like Opie . Kurt Sutter , the author , I think , did some really awe-inspiring matter .
Great show !
John Garvin : I was interested in that , and Jeff Ross was the one who said , " I have always been a huge buff of open world games . We should do this as an open humans . That would be amazing . " At the same sentence , we were both believe of gameplay hooks . The tycoon of the PS4 , the power to do something like a horde which was 400 or 500 enemies all at the same sentence . I conceive that came from both of us just spitballing . And that gets Don Yatomi imply , and his team created one of our very first pieces of key art that helped sell this game . It was this guy standing on top of a rooftop of an honest-to-god saw milling machinery , and one C and hundred of freakers are pullulate towards him in an orderly , hive - mind kind of way . A lot of ideas arrive from me , I suppose … Certainly all the characters and so on . But the plot does n’t be without the game , and that all came from Jeff . In terms of readable demarcations , anything that has to do with play the biz , holding the controller from second to second , that ’s all Jeff Ross . The mechanics and the skill tree and the way the weapon bicycle whole kit and caboodle , the selection vision , that all come from Jeff . The last implementation of the radar , all that stuff .
I see .
John Garvin : He ’s get a huge squad of designers who all run on these thing individually . They all have steer who direct every part of the game . That part is hugely collaborative . But the book , that all came from me , and all the characters and positioning and a lot of the missions , frankly , and I think that ’s one of the reasons you ’ll find , when you playDays run , and if you encounter any of Sony Bend ’s games … I ’m a vast gamer , but I also have a Master ’s Degree in English . My background is in Shakespeare ! I was really able to , too soon on , land this sensibility to the origination process . Like , why do n’t we bring our stirring from this ? Instead of from a game , we ’ll take inspiration from a Word of God or a TV show , and combine things I have n’t see done in games before . I think that ’s my part of it . Jeff does the playability part of it . Anytime you ’re having merriment in the game , it ’s because Jeff and his guy cable did a really good line of work take a crap the biz fun to play .
It ’s so suspicious you mentioned Shakespeare , since Jason Dante fromUncharted : Golden Abyssis one of my favorite chracters in all of gaming , and I always retrieve of him as being so Shakespearian .
John Garvin : It ’s funny , in writingGolden Abyss , I always call up of General Oro as being more Shakespearean , since I gave him some more flowery line , just because he take himself an orator , so he could get flamboyant in ways I do n’t think Dante would . But it ’s suspect , I ’ve never really thought about it that agency !
Anyway , let ’s talk about Sam Witwer ! He is really lackadaisical . I mean , he ’s talented , but also super moony , and we really get to see him inDays Gone ! So , you wrote Deacon St. John . You create him . Were you hands - on in casting ? How did Sam get pull in in ?
John Garvin : I was completely hands - on . I was the bozo . All casting decisions came from me . too soon on , we were judge out a few different guys to toy the atomic number 82 . betimes , we had perish with someone quite a moment older , but it was a very unlike - finger game , too soon on . It was a small more tongue - in - cheek , and not quite so serious . Technology - wise , we were still working our character line for PS4 . We made a conclusion , maybe a yr into maturation , that we were going to go with digital stunt woman , meaning we were endure to cast someone who not only had a heavy vocalisation , but needed to have the spirit we were search for . Sam has that literal combining of the right look and the voice . And he can act !
Did your work onUnchartedinfluence this casting process ?
I really love , specially in game , these apparent motion - captured performances . you’re able to really see the histrion in the character . When I first saw the game , I recognized Sam Witwer before he even spoke , fromStar Wars : The Force Unleashed . Was that ever a give-and-take ? Did you ever turn over changing his similitude so audiences would n’t recognise the thespian ?
We ’ve also come such a long way sinceSyphon Filter , where you ’d write the playscript and someone would derive in and say the lines . Nowadays , they ’re acting the whole performance on a stage . What opportunities do actors have to help shape their characters while they ’re acting ? Can they say , " Can I change this air ? " or " What if I do this or else ? " I imagine it ’s much more collaborative than it was back in the quote - unquote " old days . "
John Garvin : Up untilGolden Abyss , we always did the histrion singly in the VO booth , working from a pretty tight script . Then , in San Diego , the stunt actor would be memorialize the view individually , on a mo - cap point . Then , we would combine them together later on in animation . We would hire vitaliser to do all the sass sync and facial expressions . We did that , even for Resistance Retribution for PSP . We got some good workplace out of it , but you ’re never gon na get Naughty Dog - level work using that outgrowth , which is why , when we begin working onGolden Abyss , we spent week down in L.A. , learn how they do it . And it ’s night and mean solar day . And , to answer your question , of can they join forces , yes , absolutely , that ’s the whole item !
Could you give me an example of how thing were changed establish on an actor ’s comment ?
John Garvin : There ’s a scene where Deacon gets take in steal drugs from one of the emcampment ’s infirmaries , and meets these two characters , Rikki and Addie . Nishi Munshi plays Rikki . She and Deacon had to have this moment , and they ’re two super significant characters . The way I had written it was reasonably serious . Over the course of six takes , we do all these shots . The first take is always going to be rough . By the time you get to the sixth take , you get to what the real history is about . It ’s always a combination of what ’s on the varlet and what the actor ’s bring to it . Sam went , have ’s have Deacon be a little more varlet - ish here , a lot more jokey and just have him trying to laugh it off and get past them , rather than pointing ordnance and being all serious . So the last take is way better than the first one , and it ’s because the account , the character , it improve with the worker ' input . Nishi append a heartbeat , as well .
What was that ?
John Garvin : When Addie come up to her and say , " he ’s not steal narcotics , he ’s slip antibiotics ! " That ’s a big surprising bit and I had n’t pen a response for Rikki , and Nishi said , " She ’s got ta react there , veracious ? " And I ’m like , yeah , absolutely , so she added " Wait , what ? " Actors are very significant to the process . They serve create the characters . They aid improve the script , certainly , but just by being alive on the set , in the moment , trying to make everything feel actual .
I think we really are at the point where there ’s no ancestry between crafting a non - synergistic scene , whether it ’s for a game or a picture show .
John Garvin : One of the key things we ’re render to achieve here is realism and realism . We did n’t need anything to feel rat , or experience fake , or find … " gamey . " We wanted it to finger as veridical as we could peradventure make it , so it feels like you ’re play a movie , which is kind of what our end was .
I feel likeDays Goneis the completion of so many different generation of technological advancement , in storytelling , acting , motion - gaining control , etc . And to put that in an undefendable creation game , this is a whole fresh savage for your squad .
John Garvin : That was our enceinte goal going into this . Bend has always done these third - person , narrative - repel game . Linear game . We really wanted to see if it was possible to do our fashion of game in an open world . Typically , the heart-to-heart - world literary genre is very unhinge . you’re able to go in any guidance . It ’s very hard to build tension or dramatic event because you ’ve got other things you could do ! you could do some stuff and nonsense in any edict you need . The challenge for us was , how do we recite our cinematic style of biz in an open world ? That ’s kind of how we stop up with six hours of cinematics in a 30 - hour master tale playthrough . We really wanted to check that we had enough continuity in the reference development and floor development while you ’re play the plot , to always keep thing interesting .
And what did you do , writing - wise , to keep things interesting ?
John Garvin : Going back to Shakespeare , plausibly the biggest matter I memorise from Shakespeare , which has been carry over into situation comedy more than film , is just the sort of A plot , B plot of ground , C patch structure . You have this main level , maybe it ’s Deacon trying to keep his in force supporter , Boozer , active . Then you have a side account , or B game , I do n’t even call it a side story . In a lot of open world games , side story literally have nothing to do with the principal fib . In our game , everything has something to do with the main story , either thematically or in term of direct through lines or character evolution . These unlike plotlines all feed on each other or build on each other in , hopefully , interesting or surprising ways . I learned from Shakespeare that it ’s okay to mix it up ; do n’t keep the same two histrion on the stagecoach all the time ! check that there ’s something else lead on . have some of your character be more humorous than the more crack serious single , or whatever . I think that ’s something game could do more .
Does role player choice have any impact on the way of life the characters and storyline grow ?
John Garvin : The tone and the style of the writing does n’t alter . We ’re not doing a telling - style plot that has branching plot line or anything like that . The variety that occur in the case , obviously , occur because of the narration . So , not needs because of thing the player is doing . The exception to that is the dialog at the merchant and in the subsister bivouac . It changes depending on your trust level with those encampment . The player has agency in how much work they want to do with these encampments . The more Deacon does for them , the healthy the citizen become , and they become less fussy and more friendly when they spread out the gates to get you in . They start call you by your first name , for example .
Days Goneis a plot we ’ve been able to see develop over a longer point of time than is normal , but not because the game was awfully delayed , but because you were willing to show it that early . The E3 2016 demonstration was very impressive , but what ’s come out in the last few month is completely overhauled . Bend has been so transparent on the change , like the removal of binary choices made during cutscenes . I ’m think about the relationship between the fictional character , the player , and the writer , you make love ?
John Garvin : Thank you , number one , because we have completely … We ’re always continuing to act upon on the game , but what ’s interesting about that 2016 demonstration is that it ’s an actual missionary station in the game . The gameplay there has n’t change . It ’s part of the game , it ’s one of the required hordes you have to agitate over the course of the plot . It ’s at the saw manufacturing plant , it ’s one of the major gameplay beat ofDays Gone . It ’s still there , though it does look a lot better now .
That ’s really nerveless , I sleep together when stuff from previews seem in the final game and you may really compare and counterpoint the differences .
John Garvin : That was still alpha . The affair about the binary choice is , we release some of that footage when it was still alpha . We were working on the secret plan up until even now . We ’re always making it well . The thing about player choices is , players did n’t get it ! ( jest ) We have on-going focus tests where we bring in twenty thespian at a time and have them encounter the game from start to finish over a calendar week . We ’ve done that dozens of time over the retiring two age . The data just kept come back , you know ? We thought it was going to be this awesome matter where Boozer ’s morale was extend to be this awesome affair player would have to find out , but histrion just did n’t realize it . For the amount of work we were put into it , there was no payoff . It was hurting the player experience . When we got rid of it , it made a vast difference in a number of way .
That ’s so interesting .
John Garvin : As a writer , one of the lessons I had to find out that was really hard ahead of time on , was this : on a motion picture playscript , you ’ve 90 to 120 pages , give or take . You require your character to start out flawed and broken , and you need them to be in a place where they have a lot of room to convert and turn . For Deacon , he starts out as this nihilistic , busted guy wire . Honestly , he is n’t very likable at first . The affair is , in a movie , you ’re doing that for ten or fifteen minutes before you have a accelerator that take a shit him begin to switch . That sprain out to be eight hours inDays Gone , and I did n’t realize that until I played the secret plan for the first meter , in December of 2017 .
Oh my gosh , that ’s hilarious , but it must have been so uncomfortable for you !
John Garvin : It was just like , " okay , so all these binary choice are also hurting that . " If Deacon has the power to leave this guy to be eat alive or to put him out of his miserableness , the player , at that minute , does n’t really have sex what the correct thing to do is . In either case , it reach Deacon out to be … If he leave him to be eat live , it turns him into a literal a**hole ! The same with admit Boozer ’s shotgun . Kind of going along with that , if you have an obvious choice to make , players will always choose the good matter . It ’s something that we take from looking at something like Infamous . The number of players who choose dark over light is in reality very small , believe it or not . We require to be " honest " in video games . We desire to flirt the good guy cable . But the biggest thing was , it made Deacon ’s character substantial . It made players less confused about what was going on , and it saved us product time because we did n’t have to smooth all the cinematics that were resulting from all these binary choice .
When you changed the choices , did you rewrite how it played out , or did you make the selection for the instrumentalist ?
John Garvin : We just made the choice for the histrion . So Deacon will always shoot Leon in the first twenty minutes , and Deacon will always leave Boozer ’s scattergun . We just basically made the choices in every case where we had them , and it was always make the character reference stronger .
Okay , now I have to require you , and this is tremendously important : can you plough Deacon ’s backward chapiter around so it ’s facing forwards ?
John Garvin : ( gag ) Can the player choose to do that ? Hmm … Here ’s the thing . This is a bragging inquiry , honestly . One of the things a batch of open world game have in mutual is that there ’s a lot of actor alternative in the way the main character look . We decided , very too soon on , that we were n’t going to do that . The reason is , the way Deacon look has Brobdingnagian taradiddle deduction . This is something the player may or may not point out , but in flashbacks , Deacon is pretty blank shaven . He does n’t have his scruffy whiskers . I need there to be this really stark contrast between these periods in Deacon ’s life . From flashbacks with Sarah to the prologue where you see him have to make this ugly pick between save his married woman and economise his best friend , and then the game itself , where you see things happening two age afterwards . These different fourth dimension period all have a different interpretation of this man . Going back to biker culture , it ’s altogether reflect in the way he dress , including his hat and his whisker and his facial pilus . We had to ensure that the musician could n’t mess up that up . We do n’t desire the player to say , " I want Deacon , in this flashback , to have a big seedy beard . " Well , no ! That ’s not who he was then . During the course of the game , for report understanding , perhaps the lid ’s not there at all …
Ooh , intriguing !
That ’s really cool . I really like that answer . It ’s the same as the binary choices . Sometimes , the player can have that intimate control over the quality ’s story , but sometimes , it has to be the way it ’s pen , the direction you wrote it and the manner the doer did it .
John Garvin : One thing , though , you may change how the bicycle look . So , that was the via media we made . There ’s literally jillion of combinations of colouration and clip and all that , and it ’s alone possible to create a wheel that looks like one Deacon St. John would never sit down on . you may have a pink petrol tank and unripe chrome and it can be garish and ugly . But if the player wants to do that , they are empowered to do whatever they want with the wheel .
I ’ve stupefy time for one last question . Syphon Filter : Logan ’s Shadow . Did Teresa and Gabe survive that finish ?
John Garvin : ( Laughs ) … perchance , hopefully , we ’ll find out someday .
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